PSC Meeting 6 Dec 2013¶
Proposed meeting time:¶
Friday, Dec 06, 1500 UTC
from Paolo's mail:
- next QGIS HF
- QGIS Trade Mark protection
- joining Software Freedom Conservancy
- notes from Anita: What are our reasons/goals joining Software Freedom Conservancy? I also just learned about Location Tech at Eclipse Foundation which seems to do something similar (http://locationtech.org/members).
- rules for wiki cleanup/removal
- donations handling (now too complex and cumbersome)
- logo (should we reopen this discussion or let it be until 3.0)
- non-profit (started looking into Austrian situation, but feeling a bit overwhelmed)
- Pull requests (is current situation ok or are there suggestions for better procedure)?
- 2.2 when will be freeze, when will be release (I suppose a deadline by date and not features is agreed on already)
- 2.0.2 will this exist? How much is required to get into release-2_0 before tagging this?
- password files, email and dns (fedora.qgis.org etc)
16:00 < jef> where's anita? 16:00 < timlinux> Maybe confused over the time? 16:00 < timlinux> Ill tweet her 16:03 -!- anitagraser [~Anita@chello084114132079.11.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #qgis_meeting_131206 16:03 < anitagraser> hi 16:03 <@mhugent> hi anitagraser 16:04 < duiv> hi anitagraser 16:04 < timlinux> hey anitagraser 16:04 < anitagraser> timlinux: you here :P 16:04 < jef> hi * 16:04 < anitagraser> who'll be leading the meeting? 16:04 < timlinux> anitagraser: yup! 16:05 <@mhugent> so todays topics are at http://hub.qgis.org/wiki/quantum-gis/PSC_Meeting_6_Dec_2013 16:05 * duiv just updated :-) 16:05 <@mhugent> since Paolo cannot be here today, should we start with Anitas topics and catch Paolos topics at the end? 16:05 < anitagraser> fine with me 16:06 < duiv> well, as long as we talk about QGIS HF 16:06 < timlinux> +1 16:07 < anitagraser> Ok, I'll be quick. Does anyone want to reopen the discussion about the logo? 16:07 < jef> 0 16:07 < anitagraser> I vote for keeping it for 2.x 16:07 < timlinux> 0 16:07 < duiv> 0 16:07 <@mhugent> I also think it is better to change logo not before 3 16:08 < anitagraser> ok, then we keep it for 2.x 16:08 < anitagraser> second point was mentioned at the last hackfest 16:08 < anitagraser> I looked into opening a non-profit in Austria 16:08 < timlinux> ok 16:08 < anitagraser> It seems doable but everything will have to be done in German. I'm not comfortable doing that alone. 16:09 <@mhugent> Is the procedure complicated? 16:09 < timlinux> BTW It seems I can open one in South Africa quite easily 16:09 < anitagraser> that would be English at least 16:09 < timlinux> yes 16:10 < timlinux> For me I'm not particularly bothered if it is in German 16:10 < anitagraser> mhugent: maybe not too complicated, but we'll have to keep submitting documents in German as long as the non-profit is "alive" 16:10 < timlinux> I guess Richard can also fake his way through reading a bit of German too 16:10 < duiv> lol, exactly, faking 16:11 < anitagraser> the goal was to have a non-profit to get a bank account? 16:11 < anitagraser> or was there more? 16:11 < timlinux> anitagraser: there is more 16:11 < timlinux> I have been working quite a bit with HOT and with WorldBank and AusAID 16:12 < timlinux> basically if we have not for profit status we can actually go to organisations like AusAID and request a grant 16:12 < timlinux> so we basically think up something we want to do e.g. multithreading or whatever 16:12 < timlinux> and then take a project proposal to them 16:13 < timlinux> I think this can open many doors to us 16:13 < anitagraser> from my original research mail: "We need two founders who are not required to be Austrian citizens. It's also necessary to appoint two people to handle the finances. Since all documents will be in German, most work would have to be done be the German-speaking part of the community. As long as we are dealing with amounts below one million Euros, we only need to do a statement of revenues and expenditures and no extensi 16:13 < jef> truncated after "and no extensi" 16:14 < timlinux> OK I reckon it will be a while before we are 'struggling' with the fact that our running budget is > 1 million 16:14 < anitagraser> no extensive book keeping is necessary." 16:14 < anitagraser> should we try Austria, South Africa or something else 16:15 < timlinux> The bigger issue is who will do the admin work - it basically puts it onto the german speaking psc members 16:15 < timlinux> while I can fake my way to read german 16:15 < timlinux> I couldnt fake my way to write it for such documents 16:16 < anitagraser> maybe we should have to whole psc to decide? 16:18 < jef> are there other known options? are there pros and cons for austria or sa? 16:18 < timlinux> anitagraser: yes for the actual decision we should put it to a formal vote - but it would be good to narrow down a list of proposed options now 16:19 < anitagraser> jef: for Austria, I think a pro would be that it seems to be quite cheap (< 100 eur) to set up 16:19 < timlinux> Only con with SA option that I know of is that it would basically be a single point of failure (me) 16:19 < anitagraser> source: https://www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/hlpd/public/content/22/Seite.220300.html 16:20 < timlinux> though I could probably rope in some folks from the local community 16:20 < anitagraser> mhugent: what's the Swiss situation? 16:20 < timlinux> pros with SA option ar ethat overheads would probably be very low 16:21 < timlinux> compared to any european option 16:21 <@mhugent> It's also quite easy to found a Verein in Switzerland (like the swiss user group) 16:21 < anitagraser> mhugent: can it be done in English? 16:22 <@mhugent> I need to check. From a quick look at the austrian document, it seems the procedure is easier 16:22 < anitagraser> mhugent: sry, which one is easier? 16:22 <@mhugent> the Swiss one. As far as I know, the cost is 0.00 Fr. 16:23 < timlinux> cant beat the price :-) 16:23 <@mhugent> But I don't know if it is 100% comparable to the Austrian Verein 16:24 < anitagraser> no idea either. should we try to compile a comparison matrix with pros and cons of Austria, Switzerland and SA (+ whatever else comes up) and then decide in the next meeting? 16:24 <@mhugent> Or if Worldbank & co. do recognize it as non-profit 16:24 < anitagraser> can we ask worldbank? 16:24 < timlinux> I can ask Abby yes 16:25 < timlinux> http://www.services.gov.za/services/content/Home/OrganisationServices/registeringabusiness/registerasectio21company/en_ZA 16:25 < timlinux> for reference above is the SA procedure 16:26 < timlinux> I think the Swiss one is cheaper to register :-) 16:26 < anitagraser> so the next step is to ask Abby if a Swiss Verein would be ok? 16:27 < timlinux> Yes - is there a link about them in Eng? 16:27 <@mhugent> I'm trying to find one and will mail the link to timlinux 16:28 < anitagraser> ok, should we then continue with mhugent's agenda point? 16:28 <@mhugent> there is a wikipedia article in english: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Verein 16:28 < timlinux> ok 16:29 <@mhugent> Ok, let's go on with the pull requests 16:29 < anitagraser> as far as I've seen the problem seem to be that people send pull requests which sometimes are not accted on for a long time, right? 16:30 <@mhugent> To discuss if people are happy about the current procedure or if there are better ideas 16:30 <@mhugent> anitagraser: yes, that's one problem 16:31 < anitagraser> is it purely a manpower problem? 16:31 < timlinux> mhugent: is there a suggestion of a 'better' way to handle them? 16:31 <@mhugent> anitagraser: from my experience yes 16:32 <@mhugent> timlinux: there have been ideas around closing old PR automatically with a kind message to the author 16:33 <@mhugent> or reassigning to a different dev after some time 16:33 < anitagraser> -1 why automatically, shouldn't we at least write exactly why the request was not acted on? 16:33 < timlinux> perhaps we need a good readme 16:33 < timlinux> about how to get your patch accepted 'socially' in the project 16:34 <@mhugent> anitagraser: agreed, automatically closing is not good 16:34 < timlinux> I notice some e.g. nyall make their patches much more approachable than others 16:34 < anitagraser> so the problem is the way the patches are submitted? then +1 for a how2 16:34 < timlinux> and others like like e.g. Matthias give you a nudge if you havent acted on their patch 16:34 <@mhugent> sometimes it is already a bit of work to write a sound statement why a patch is not considered 16:35 < jef> and there's still no way to get a list of pr assigned to you. 16:35 < anitagraser> jef: ok, so there is a infrastructure issue as well? 16:35 < timlinux> I wonder if we can do it with their api 16:35 < jef> timlinux: me too, but that doesn't help ;) 16:36 < timlinux> http://developer.github.com/v3/pulls/ 16:36 < timlinux> jef: well we could write a simple web app to do it 16:36 < timlinux> or command line app 16:37 < duiv> well, as long as these are <50 PR's I do not have a problem to bump someone once a week or so... 16:38 < timlinux> http://thechangelog.com/git-pulls-command-line-tool-for-github-pull-requests/ <-- maybe that 16:38 < timlinux> though its not clear if that use is the submitter or the assignee 16:39 < jef> timlinux: ok, I should probably look again. but last time I didn't find anything before I got distracted again ;) 16:40 <@mhugent> looks good. Maybe a shell script could produce such a list 16:40 < timlinux> :-) 16:41 < timlinux> So from my side I think the only thing we should do is have a nice readme in developer docs explaining the social elements of how to get your pull request accepted 16:41 < anitagraser> +1 who can write that? 16:41 <@mhugent> +1 16:41 < jef> do we favour discussion in the PR comments or on the list? 16:42 < timlinux> I can write it if others review it 16:42 <@mhugent> thanks timlinux 16:42 < duiv> jef: sometimes also been done via an issue 16:42 < jef> do we favour discussion in the PR comments or on the list or in an issue? 16:43 < timlinux> for me I prefer in the PR comments 16:43 < anitagraser> PR comments seem to provide the best way to archive the discussion where it matters 16:43 < timlinux> so everything is in one place 16:43 <@mhugent> PR comments are also more convenient to me 16:44 < duiv> well, yes, but (I'm talking about this keyboard shortcuts now), at a certain point you would want others to look into it 16:45 < duiv> for which we can off course point to the PR comments then ... 16:45 < duiv> PR comment we do? 16:46 < anitagraser> +1 16:46 <@mhugent> +1 16:46 < jef> right keyboard shortcuts and the rendering performance patch are particular examples. it's not do this and that to get it pulled, but more general discussion. 16:47 <@mhugent> those are the more complicated ones... 16:48 <@mhugent> jef: do you think those general discussions should rather go to the mailing list? 16:48 < timlinux> For me it no problem if the discussion spills over to the lists / ticket 16:48 < timlinux> but the actual summary of decision and direct discussion with PR author in the PR make sense 16:49 < timlinux> as (e.g. with logo competition) in the general discussion list its very hard to know what decision if any was made 16:49 < timlinux> or what it is people actually want done 16:50 <@mhugent> Ok, any other opinions or shall we go to the next topic? 16:50 < duiv> can we as psc go over the PR's to judge and remove some? 16:51 < duiv> not now, but anywhere in upcoming time 16:51 < anitagraser> I don't think that's withing my skill set 16:51 <@mhugent> I'm going through them from time to time 16:52 < duiv> I see, but some of them stay there, without an action. Should we not 'do something' with those 16:52 < duiv> telling people: "sorry nobody can judge this at this moment" or.. I don't know 16:52 < anitagraser> duiv: I could try to help find those and raise them for discussion ... if that helps 16:52 < timlinux> duiv: I think we must put the responsibility to the PR author to do something 16:53 < timlinux> ie in the README we explain 'if nobody actions your request, please contact Marco as final arbitrator' 16:53 < duiv> ok, that is/was not clear to me... plz put that in your readme then 16:53 <@mhugent> +1 16:53 < anitagraser> +1 16:54 < duiv> next point? 16:54 < jef> +1 (also he could first ping the assigned dev) 16:54 < timlinux> yes 16:54 < anitagraser> yes, next point 16:54 <@mhugent> even better, ping first assigned dev and then me 16:54 < jef> yes, s/also/although/ 16:54 <@mhugent> It's close to 17h. Shall we go on with HF? 16:55 < anitagraser> +1 16:55 < timlinux> +1 16:55 < jef> +1 16:55 < anitagraser> should we just vote on the location, or do we want to discuss? 16:56 <@mhugent> As far as I remember, it has already been decided to be in Vienna. Is that correct? 16:56 < duiv> that was what I thought too, but Paolo told me that both options are open 16:56 < timlinux> Are we going to dovetale with the c-tribe hf? 16:56 < anitagraser> mhugent: That was my impression until recently. Now not so sure. 16:57 < anitagraser> timlinux: If I remember correctly (probably some of Paolo's mails), C-tribe already got a bigger venue. 16:57 < jef> IIRC that was the only open question, wasn't it? is the venue big enough. 16:58 < duiv> not sure. I talked to stephan two week ago, and at that time he was waiting for paolos anwer 16:58 < duiv> so stephan was waiting on us, to ask for a bigger venue 16:58 < anitagraser> then we should move quick 16:58 < duiv> so: should we just decide: vienna we try first 16:58 < anitagraser> +1 16:58 < jef> +1 16:58 <@mhugent> +1 for Vienna 16:59 < timlinux> yes 16:59 < timlinux> +1 16:59 < duiv> +1 16:59 < timlinux> Please order some warmer weather than last time :-) 16:59 < anitagraser> :D 16:59 <@mhugent> We should do a HF in South Africa somewhen :-) 16:59 < anitagraser> next point then? 16:59 < anitagraser> releases? 16:59 < duiv> timlinux: I heard mkuhn wants to take you into the snow 17:00 < duiv> I'll write an email to psc list cc'ing stephan then 17:00 < anitagraser> duiv: thanks 17:00 < timlinux> Anyway I think it would be good to collaborate with other osgeo projects 17:01 -!- jef changed the topic of #qgis_meeting_131206 to: http://hub.qgis.org/wiki/quantum-gis/PSC_Meeting_6_Dec_2013 17:01 < duiv> releases 17:01 < timlinux> mhugent: any time! 17:02 * anitagraser has 5 more minutes 17:02 <@mhugent> releases: '2.2 when will be freeze, when will be release (I suppose a deadline by date and not features is agreed on already)' 17:02 < duiv> should we create a wiki or web page with these dates? iirc jef has these alreayd more or less 'fixed'? 17:03 < jef> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2013-November/029528.html 17:03 < duiv> just for 2014 ;-) 17:04 < anitagraser> seems like the release questions are answered then 17:04 < jef> yes, the schedule is not too cron friendly. :) 17:04 <@mhugent> Ok, that is clear. So next point: '2.0.2 will this exist? How much is required to get into release-2_0 before tagging this?' 17:05 < jef> I thought we agreed not to do point releases - but apparently not everyone agrees. 17:05 < timlinux> jef: you are the release manager :-) 17:05 < duiv> I think we agreed on this already, yes 17:05 < timlinux> For me master works very stably and I would be happy to go straight on to 2.2 17:06 <@mhugent> +1 17:06 < duiv> +1 17:06 < jef> +1 17:06 < anitagraser> +1 17:06 < duiv> should I create a web page in the website somewhere with these dates? 17:06 < anitagraser> +1 if jef agrees 17:07 < jef> +1 17:07 < duiv> linking to a page here: http://qgis.org/en/site/forusers/index.html#download 17:08 <@mhugent> Ok, so last discussion point:'password files, email and dns (fedora.qgis.org etc)'. Richard? 17:08 < duiv> last HF we created a password file, but it is still almost empty 17:08 < duiv> I added something recently 17:09 < anitagraser> duiv: I have none to contribute 17:09 < duiv> for example: where should I create a new email address or qgis.org subdomain 17:09 < timlinux> I will add the docker etc vm logins once I finally finish them 17:10 < duiv> timlinux: I created a user 'qgis' at docker 17:10 < duiv> so we can upload image at qgis/timsbuildthingie 17:10 * anitagraser has to go, sry. we should try to meet again soon. 17:11 < timlinux> yes 17:11 < timlinux> I really like the idea of meeting once a month 17:11 < timlinux> first fri of the month or whatever 17:11 < timlinux> though maybe fri is difficult if people are going away for the weekend 17:11 <@mhugent> Sounds good 17:11 <@mhugent> fri would be ok for me 17:12 < duiv> timlinux: let's keep it friday, untill you are away for more then 3 times 17:12 < timlinux> ok 17:12 < anitagraser> i'm travelling every once in a while on fr afternoon/evening 17:12 < anitagraser> bug will try to give my best with the schedule 17:12 * anitagraser waves goodbye 17:12 < duiv> bye anitagraser 17:12 < jef> bye anita 17:12 <@mhugent> bye anitagraser 17:12 < timlinux> cya anitagraser 17:13 < duiv> timlinux: mkuhn has created a docker to build rpm's 17:13 < timlinux> yes 17:13 < duiv> we were thinking about making them available at fedora.qgis.org redhat.qgis.org or so 17:13 * jef didn't create anything on the new machine 17:14 < timlinux> btw we have made a user map for inasafe which I was going to propose to deploy as replacement for users.qgis.org 17:14 < timlinux> you can see it at http://users.inasafe.org 17:14 < duiv> I've been looking in our godaddy account, but I cannot find where to do this 17:14 < timlinux> duiv: its a bit hidden 17:14 < timlinux> 1 sec I will log in and look 17:15 < duiv> by the way: I acquired qgis.com recently 17:15 < duiv> almost by accident 17:15 < timlinux> oh good 17:15 < timlinux> who had it? 17:16 < duiv> I don't know. I accidently went to it, filled in some form 17:16 < duiv> and one day later was paypalling some money to an american guy 17:16 < duiv> thinking it should be scam 17:16 < duiv> but it worked :-) 17:17 < timlinux> wow what did it cost 17:18 < duiv> 150 dollar 17:18 < timlinux> urf 17:18 < timlinux> you should ask Paolo to refund it to you 17:18 < timlinux> its good to have it in our collection 17:18 < duiv> well, I think that is not so much for a 4 letter com domain anyway 17:19 < duiv> back to our meeting... 17:19 < timlinux> we should keep a list of which domains we actually have 17:20 < duiv> so timlinux you say I can make fedora.qgis.org via the webinterface of godaddy? 17:20 < duiv> if so I will find it 17:20 < duiv> and who is doing the email addresses? 17:20 < timlinux> You *should* be able to 17:21 < timlinux> I am looking there to 17:21 < timlinux> me 17:21 < timlinux> I cant recall if google apps is in the KeepassX store 17:21 < duiv> ok, because we had a volunteer to react to 'firstname.lastname@example.org' or so 17:21 < duiv> no it is not there 17:23 < timlinux> so you want me to add an email for that? dont we already have email@example.com 17:24 < timlinux> will look 17:24 < duiv> timlinux: I'll look it up, and sent you an email about it 17:25 < duiv> do we want to go over one of the other points of paolo? 17:25 <@mhugent> I need to leave office soon 17:25 * duiv too 17:25 < timlinux> ok mhugent cya! 17:32 < duiv> afk for now. Heading home... 17:34 < timlinux> ok cya 17:34 <@mhugent> bye 17:34 -!- mhugent [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23 -!- anitagraser [~Anita@chello084114132079.11.15.vie.surfer.at] has left #qgis_meeting_131206  20:05 -!- anitagraser [~Anita@chello084114132079.11.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #qgis_meeting_131206 20:06 < anitagraser> will the logs be put online? where?