PSC Meeting 7 Feb 2014

Proposed meeting time:

Friday, Feb 07, 1500 UTC

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Members Present:

Agenda:

Il 19/01/2014 17:30, Martin Dobias ha scritto:
> We should probably agree on a policy about the right way of giving credit to
> organizations that fund development. Recently in source code there I have some
> mentions of funding in comments which I believe are better kept just in git commit
> comments, out of source code.

  • [pcav] managing local user groups and QGIS Days across the globe
  • [pcav] trademark
  • [pcav] QGIS association/foundation
  • [rduiv] status vienna (yesterday IRC meeting)
  • [anita] 2.2 release name

Log:

--- Log opened Fri Feb 07 15:56:24 2014
15:56 -!- jef [fischer@gloin.linux-buechse.de] has joined #qgis_meeting_140207
15:56 -!- Irssi: #qgis_meeting_140207: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
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16:00 <@anitagraser> http://hub.qgis.org/wiki/quantum-gis/PSC_Meeting_7_Feb_2014
16:00 -!- duiv [~richard@a83-163-43-149.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #qgis_meeting_140207
16:00 < duiv> hyo
16:00 <@anitagraser> hi
16:01 < duiv> anitagraser: how's the workinggroup html going?
16:01 < duiv> because now I think it is better to NOT make it static html
16:01 <@anitagraser> duiv: i've been waiting for a reply from the uk about which dates they want to put on it
16:01 < duiv> it should be some json or atom file, which just get parsed and injected in that block
16:02 <@anitagraser> duiv: ok. and where will that file come fom? updated manually?
16:02 < duiv> I can do that, but it would be nice if we agree on some styling/layout
16:02 < duiv> yes, somewhere on the interweb
16:02 < duiv> easiest is just on qgis.org
16:02 <@anitagraser> duiv: i think 4 4 4 makes most sense
16:03 < duiv> then we have no crossdomain troubles
16:03 <@anitagraser> probably between gallery and planet
16:03 <@anitagraser> to keep up the symmetry
16:04 < duiv> ok, let me mock up something
16:05 < duiv> jef: question for you (while we are waiting :-) )
16:05 < duiv> I've no created virtual hosts for api.... issues... and py....
16:05 <@anitagraser> duiv: great thanks
16:05 < duiv> so every virtual host is a new conf file
16:05 < duiv> is there an smarter way for that?
16:06 <@anitagraser> with issues.qgis.org we should decide if it should go to the bug tracker or to the instructions
16:06 < duiv> like: can you do a redirect in the qgis.org like: 
16:06 <@anitagraser> or can we add a "how to use this" button to the bugtracker?
16:06 < duiv> anitagraser: you are boss in that: tell me :-)
16:07 < duiv> Redirect issues.qgis.org  http://qgis.rog ......
16:08 < duiv> anitagraser: it is now going to the instructions
16:08 <@anitagraser> duiv: do you know if we can change http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/issues to include a link to the documentation?
16:09 < jef> duiv: um, dunno.  better ask a web guy - there are companies that even have web in their name ;)
16:09 < duiv> mmm don't know of anyone
16:10 < jef> duiv: do we prefer http://www.qgis.org or http://qgis.org
16:10 < jef> ?
16:10 <@anitagraser> qgis.org
16:10 < duiv> I think tim likes the short hand
16:10 < duiv> an and anita too :-)
16:10 <@anitagraser> www is a waste of time :)
16:11 < duiv> jef: I made an error in the link for #8708
16:11 < jef> duiv: s/de/en
16:11 < duiv> yeah thanks
16:11 < duiv> BUT that was the question for
16:11 < duiv> we could do also: sponsors.qgis.org and support.qgis.org
16:12 < duiv> so we keep that exact links in the apache configs
16:12 <@anitagraser> duiv: redirect to the instructions is fine for now i think
16:12 <@anitagraser> +1 for sponsors and support redirects
16:13 < duiv> jef: did you already commit ;-)
16:13 < duiv> I smell you were busy with that
16:13 < jef> duiv: not yet.   unsure if I should run perl over i18n/*.ts
16:13 < duiv> to update the strings?
16:13 < jef> yes
16:14 <@anitagraser> duiv: do you know who takes care of http://plugins.qgis.org/? to update the links?
16:14 < duiv> well that is part of the django stuff. Best to ask alessandro or tim
16:14 < jef> duiv: do we have something new for http://qgis.org/wiki/GUI_Translation?
16:14 -!- pcav [~Icedove@host217-123-static.253-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #qgis_meeting_140207
16:14 < pcav> hi all
16:14 < pcav> sorry for the delay
16:14 < duiv> hi pcav
16:14 < pcav> did I miss something?
16:15 < duiv> we were just discussing some practical things
16:16 < duiv> tim was trying to chime in from an airport I think, so we should not wait for that
16:16 < pcav> ok
16:16 < pcav> so nobody to wait for?
16:16 < duiv> marco was dismissed, so no
16:16 < pcav> oh
16:16 < duiv> pcav, please take your seat :-)
16:16 < pcav> so only new psc members
16:17 < pcav> apart for me
16:17 < pcav> thanks duiv 
16:17 <@anitagraser> hi pcav
16:17 < pcav> hi anitagraser 
16:18 < duiv> jef: http://qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/translate.html#howto-translate-gui
16:18 < pcav> http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/wiki/PSC_Meeting_7_Feb_2014
16:18 < duiv> but we can do a translate.qgis.org too?
16:18 <@anitagraser> duiv: mhm why not
16:19 < duiv> only reason to not do this is that currently I make a new config for every subdomain
16:19 < duiv> but we can cleanup later
16:20 < duiv> so I make: translate... support... and sponsors...
16:20 <@anitagraser> ok, should we start with what's on the agenda?
16:20 < duiv> yep
16:20 < jef> duiv: maybe there is a way to have (.+).qgis.org to redirect to qgis.org/$1/
16:20 <@anitagraser> 1. would be "giving credit to funders" 
16:21 <@anitagraser> ideas were: a) in code/comment, b) in commit messages, c) in release log, ....  any more?
16:21 < duiv> jef: will look into this... thanks
16:21 < pcav> I think commits are most appropriate
16:22 < pcav> but we should agree on a standard formula
16:22 < duiv> didn't tim answer this question too?
16:22 <@anitagraser> pcav: standard text to put in the commit message?
16:22 < pcav> like "funded by ..." and a max N of words
16:22 < pcav> yes
16:22 <@anitagraser> ok
16:22 <@anitagraser> would work for me
16:22 < pcav> and decide links yes/no (I'd vote no)
16:22 < pcav> etc
16:23 < duiv> if we only do it in the release log, it does not accumulate in the code
16:23 <@anitagraser> i think we  can rule out option a)
16:24 < duiv> and we do not have trouble with 'first version funded by A', second by B and finally fixed by C
16:24 < pcav> anitagraser: yes
16:24 < duiv> sorry sorry, I thought you were talking about that one :-/
16:24 <@anitagraser> duiv: do you think that's a problem with option c)?
16:24 <@anitagraser> duiv: ah ok
16:24 < jef> how collects that info?
16:25 < pcav> I feel it as less stable
16:25 < pcav> and it's extra work
16:25 < pcav> so b seems simpler to me
16:25 <@anitagraser> vote for b)?
16:25 < pcav> and it's directly related to the amount of work done
16:25 < pcav> +1
16:25 <@anitagraser> +1
16:26 < jef> we vote for what?  allow commiters to add a comment about how funded their work and forbid to put it into the source?
16:27 < duiv> if it is ok for the funders: +1 but if I would for example have raised a couple of thousand euro's to implement something... not sure if I would be ok with a commit msg
16:27 < jef> s/add a comment/add a comment into the commit message/
16:27 < pcav> they can always refer to the link
16:27 < pcav> and put it in their own announcements
16:28 < pcav> jef: not really allowing or forbidding
16:28 < pcav> but giving guidelines
16:28 <@anitagraser> duiv: i don't think we are taking anything away from funders. so far, there haven't been big announcements either. or is the source code full of "this was funded by"?
16:29 < pcav> not really
16:29 < duiv> not that I'm aware of
16:29 < pcav> I'm often asked to do so
16:29 < duiv> martin found some apparently
16:29 < jef> \note Development funded by Regione Toscana - SITA
16:30 < pcav> yes, also marco mentioned it as a problem
16:30 < pcav> jef: that is
16:30 < jef> event targets to be visible in the doxygen api.
16:30 < jef> doc.
16:30 < pcav> jef: that was in comments, not in code, right?
16:31 < jef> comments in code.
16:31 <@anitagraser> i would vote for clean code, but if it's too important, i can live with small code comments here and there
16:31 < duiv> jef: as a code warrior, what do you prefer?
16:31 < jef> src/providers/wms/qgswmsprovider.h - but that isn't part of the api, so it doesn't show anyway.  if it was in core or gui it would.
16:32 < pcav> Luigi mistake, sorry
16:32 < jef> duiv: a comment in the commit is acceptable to me - although it's unnessary clutter, too.
16:33 < jef> pcav: didn't I merge it?  then it's my fault ;)
16:33 < duiv> ok, so the verdict? We prefer to do credits in commit msgs, not in code anymore?
16:33 < pcav> me and anitagraser voted
16:33 < duiv> +1
16:34 < pcav> jef: ?
16:34 < jef> 0
16:34 < jef> guidelines... ;)
16:34 <@anitagraser> jef: where?
16:34 < duiv> but we need some... I have another to come up...
16:34 < pcav> sorry, I lost you
16:35 < pcav> please explain
16:35 < jef> me?
16:35 < duiv> guidelines I mean
16:35 < duiv> I think jef meaned he is not too fond about rules and guidelines
16:35 <@anitagraser> somewhere here http://www.qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/governance/index.html?
16:36 < pcav> anitagraser: yes, governance is the right place
16:36 <@anitagraser> ah ... we might still want to write it down somewhere ;)
16:36 < jef> duiv: not really.  either we need a policy about it or we don't.
16:37 < pcav> martin asked
16:37 < pcav> so obviously he thinks we need it
16:37 < duiv> who can write this down and give feedback to martin?
16:38 <@anitagraser> do we need more time to discuss? or should we move on to your point pcav?
16:38 <@anitagraser> duiv: i can write two or three lines to start with
16:39 < duiv> plz do, and add it in the governance docs in one go
16:39 < pcav> yes
16:39 < pcav> IMHO we just have to decide a formula
16:39 < pcav> a max N of word 
16:39 < pcav> not too verbose
16:39 < jef> pcav: ok, so we don't want to tell anyone not to put funding message in code and just advise to put them into the commit message.
16:40 < pcav> and if we allow links
16:40 < pcav> ok
16:40 < pcav> fine for me
16:40 < jef> you mean advice. ;)
16:40 < duiv> jef: you mean we should anounce?
16:42 < duiv> pcav: related to this: I was asked to 'upgrade' a company from 'Contributors' to 'Core contributors'
16:42 < pcav> duiv: I think we should have a responsible for each of these tasks
16:42 < duiv> when sending them to you, I was asked where IF we had guidelines for this
16:43 < pcav> otherwise it will be a mess
16:43 < pcav> duiv: not strict
16:43 < pcav> we did it as a rule of thumb
16:43 < pcav> obviously they have to hire at leas one with commit rights
16:43 < pcav> one dev I mean
16:44 <@anitagraser> pcav: sounds like a good rule to me
16:45 < jef> what about the order.   sourcepole is last, 3Liz is first.
16:45 < pcav> a to z
16:45 < duiv> "Unless there is no such a list, from outside, it appears biased and cronyism
16:46 < duiv> ^^ that I was told
16:46  * duiv learned a new english word
16:46 <@anitagraser> duiv: list of what, sorry
16:46 < pcav> which list?
16:46 < duiv> Is there a set of criteria or checklist we need to tick before joining the
16:46 < duiv> club or is it based on personal preferences of a specific PSC member
16:46 < duiv> Unless there is no such a list, from outside, it appears biased and cronyism
16:47 < duiv> ^^ that's in an email I received
16:47 < duiv> sorry for confusion
16:48  * anitagraser feels like someone was very whiny 
16:48 < jef> duiv: someone on the list?
16:48 < pcav> oh
16:48 <@anitagraser> let's clarify the text to state what pcav described, that those companies employ committers
16:48 < pcav> there is always people complaining
16:49 < duiv> anitagraser: plz make one line in governance for that one then too:
16:49 < duiv> "employ or hired a commiter"?
16:49 < duiv> so we can point to that
16:50 <@anitagraser> duiv: don't you think here would be enough http://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/commercial_support.html
16:50 <@anitagraser> i mean, i can put it in governance too .... 
16:50 < duiv> I think it should be in governance... but can be linked/copied on the support page too of course
16:51 <@anitagraser> ok
16:51 < pcav> I would leave it in governance
16:51 < pcav> and keep the page clean
16:51 < pcav> it's already too crowded
16:51 <@anitagraser> pcav: true, but difficult to find then
16:52 <@anitagraser> tiny info icon somewhere maybe?
16:52 <@anitagraser> with link to governance?
16:52 < duiv> +1
16:52 < pcav> only very interested people should fiddle with that
16:53 < pcav> and I do not think we should ovejustify our choices
16:53 < pcav> if someone is complaining, he's always welcome to come and code
16:53 <@anitagraser> 0 
16:54 < pcav> +1 for gov, -1 for web page
16:55 <@anitagraser> +1 for gov, 0 for web page
16:55  * jef looks up where lutra would be moved.
16:57 < pcav> duiv: just to know
16:57 < pcav> those complaining
16:57 < duiv> jef: https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Website/blob/master/source/site/about/sponsorship.rst
16:57 < duiv> pcav: sent you an email
16:57 < pcav> are the same who want to be upgraded?
16:57 < duiv> yep
16:57 < pcav> too bad
16:58 < pcav> criticizing and asking before entering
16:58 < pcav> not nice
16:58 < duiv> well let's not make it too big. Next point plz
16:58 < pcav> I feel we should strive to keep our friendly and collaborative environment
16:58 < pcav> sure, next
16:58 < jef> duiv: I'm probably missing the important bit on that page.
16:59 <@anitagraser> pcav: managing local user groups?
16:59 < pcav> ok
16:59 < pcav> I think we should let them reasonably free
16:59 < pcav> but still have some suggestions, templates (e.g. for web sites)
16:59 < pcav> and a few "don't" 
16:59 <@anitagraser> i have trouble imagining how we can keep up with the growing number of user groups 
17:00 < pcav> I think having a plethora of different-looking websites
17:00 < pcav> anitagraser: right
17:00 < pcav> for that we need simple rules
17:00 < pcav> to allow them to use our name
17:01 < pcav> baseline:
17:01 < pcav> we are growing much bigger
17:01 < pcav> and we want to keep our good name
17:01 < pcav> and our style
17:01 < pcav> I guess
17:01 < jef> duiv: iow, what's the important bit?
17:02 <@anitagraser> pcav: are you thinking of sharing the bootstrap theme?
17:02 <@anitagraser> then of course the logo
17:03 < duiv> jef: I do not understand
17:03 < pcav> yes, the theme
17:04 < duiv> pcav: I do not think we should enforce a theme
17:04 < jef> duiv: I don't see why you gave me that link.
17:04 <@anitagraser> duiv: i don't think we can enforce anything really, but provide if someone is looking for a solution anyway
17:05 < duiv> 16:55  * jef looks up where lutra would be moved.
17:05 < duiv> I thought you wanted to move up lutra, and was searching for the rst file
17:05 <@anitagraser> pcav: would you mind sharing your thougts about which issues you want to avoid (ad "(5:01:24 PM) pcav: and we want to keep our good name")
17:06 < jef> duiv: but that's the sponsor page, not the commercial support page with the contributors.
17:06 < jef> duiv: because I thought it was lutra that wanted to be moved.
17:07 < pcav> anitagraser: we have to decide it together
17:07 -!- qgis [~qgis@74-81-237-24.gci.net] has joined #qgis_meeting_140207
17:08 < pcav> qgis: welcome
17:08 < pcav> who are you?
17:08 <@anitagraser> pcav: i currently don't see much threat from people forming user groups ... 
17:09 < duiv> jef: https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Website/blob/master/source/site/forusers/commercial_support.rst
17:09 < pcav> not only threat
17:09 < duiv> sorry, copy/paste in terminal was not ok...
17:09 < pcav> also missed opportunities
17:09 <@anitagraser> pcav: i see
17:09 < pcav> and a wrong public image
17:10 < pcav> say, a pink website full of rabbits and kittens
17:10 < jef> duiv: git grep is my friend.  but it apparently doesn't know either if it was lutra ;)
17:10 < duiv> pcav: we also have been asked to put some links to QUG's :-) on the frontpage
17:11 -!- qgis [~qgis@74-81-237-24.gci.net] has quit [Client Quit]
17:11 < jef> duiv: gci.net is in anchorage.   does that help?
17:11 <@anitagraser> duiv: i think by linking to the user groups we might be able to tie them in more tightly into the main community
17:12 < duiv> yes, agreed! I think we really should.
17:13 < pcav> anitagraser: duiv : agreed
17:13 < pcav> my main objectives are:
17:13 < pcav> * they look part of qgis, not splinters around
17:13 < pcav> that is good for our "corporate" image
17:13 < pcav> whatever this may mean
17:14 < duiv> we could aks every QUG to create one wiki page?
17:14 < duiv> of give them one landingpage somewhere?
17:14 < pcav> * they behave properly, and if they do not, we have a way of not mixing up with them
17:14 < pcav> * tey do something for the good of the project
17:14 < pcav> much as the Swiss are doing
17:14 < pcav> agreed?
17:15 -!- mhugent [~quassel@164.8.24.31.ftth.as8758.net] has joined #qgis_meeting_140207
17:15 <@anitagraser> those are good objectives. how do we get there?
17:15 < jef> hi marco
17:15 <@anitagraser> hi mhugent
17:15 < duiv> hi mhugent 
17:15 < mhugent> hi all, sorry to be so late
17:16 < pcav> mhugent: hi 
17:16 <@anitagraser> mhugent: we are discussing pcav's point about managing local user groups
17:16 < pcav> woould you like to vote about credits as well?
17:16 < jef> in code, commit or release notes.
17:16 < pcav> it seemed an important point for you
17:16 < jef> commit message, that is.
17:17 < mhugent> what was the outcome? That credits should go to commit messages?
17:18 < jef> yes.  but just as guideline, no strong rule.
17:18 < mhugent> seems fine for me too
17:19 <@anitagraser> so how to achieve our goals for new user groups: 1) announce that we encourage using the bootstrap theme of qgis.org, ... what else?
17:20 <@anitagraser> 2) define dos and donts?
17:20 <@anitagraser> 3) ask for feedback from the user meetings?
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17:23  * anitagraser wonders where everybody went 
17:24 < pcav> anitagraser: yes
17:24 < pcav> also
17:24 < pcav> I would like to give a "new QUG package" 
17:24 < pcav> not as a duty, but as a facilitation and reccommendation
17:25 < pcav> based on Andreas comments
17:25 < duiv> anitagraser: http://qgis.org/en/site/index2.html 3 columns
17:25 <@anitagraser> pcav: can you summarize them? i don't remember
17:25 < pcav> searching
17:26 <@anitagraser> duiv: good, maybe with bold user group names and without "see this link ..." sentence
17:26 < pcav> The goals of our group are:
17:26 < pcav> * coordination of development (in Switzerland but also globally)
17:26 < pcav> * QGIS information: meetings, articles in GIS magazines, QGIS
17:26 < pcav> information on Twitter, SWISS GIS discussion boards, etc.
17:26 < pcav> * QGIS sponsoring: we collect an annual membership fee. This fee is used
17:26 < pcav> to sponsor either QGIS in general or the development of specific
17:26 < pcav> features. We have about 15k US$ available per year, at the current stage
17:26 < pcav> which we use either for paid bug fixing or for the development of
17:26 < pcav> specific features
17:26 < pcav> * initialization of application modules (like waste-water, urban
17:26 < pcav> planning, surveying, etc. - of course this needs professional
17:26 < pcav> development involving companies)
17:26 <@anitagraser> duiv: but basciallcy that should work
17:26 < pcav> We have a small steering committee with three people (president,
17:26 < pcav> financial, secretary) and a fourth member who just started and will work
17:26 < pcav> on website and marketing.
17:26 < pcav> our Website was included in the old qgis.org website and still can be
17:26 < pcav> found at http://www.qgis.ch/ - here are the status for memberships:
17:26 < pcav> http://old.qgis.org/images/qgis_usergroups/switzerland/statutes_qgis_user_group_switzerland_version_2012-02.pdf
17:26 < pcav> - luckily they are in english - so you can read them  - we are
17:26 < pcav> currently migrating this to a new website until beginning of March.
17:27 < pcav> I think the idea of memberships with an annual membership fee is
17:27 < pcav> interesting as you can collect a steady and growing crowd-funding
17:27 < pcav> initiative that can be used to positively influence the QGIS project. As
17:27 < pcav> an example we invested 5k Euro to pay a developer to work two weeks on
17:27 < pcav> dedicated bug fixing. Or we co-fund Martin Dobias to work on the
17:27 < pcav> multithreaded rendering system to be integrated in QGIS 2.4. We also
17:27 < pcav> co-funded Matthias Kuhns work on the table relations (1:n).
17:27 < pcav> Governmental organizations and companies are used to pay membership fees
17:27 < pcav> for associations or lobbying organizations - so why not doing something
17:27 < pcav> similar for QGIS? 300 or 500 US$ a year does not hurt, depending on the
17:27 < pcav> organizations or companies size. They get the added value of the
17:27 < pcav> crowd-funding initiative that helps to steer QGIS development and raise
17:27 < pcav> the quality by paid bug-fixing.
17:27 < pcav> I hope this experience from the Swiss QGIS user groups can help in other
17:28 <@anitagraser> pcav: sounds like some very nice DOs
17:28 <@anitagraser> for our list
17:29 < pcav> right
17:29 < pcav> we should not waste this very good experience IMHO
17:29 < duiv> so a page about QUG's in the webiste? And maybe we(andreas?) can write a blog post about this. Which would show up on Planet then.
17:30 < pcav> ok
17:30 < duiv> or should this come from psc>
17:31 < duiv> pcav, can you write the txt? I'll add it in the site?
17:31 < duiv> anitagraser: you have the best blog: you write a blogpost?
17:32 <@anitagraser> duiv: i should write about the swiss user group?
17:32 <@anitagraser> i mean Andreas can write a guest post too
17:32 <@anitagraser> would be more authentic
17:32 <@anitagraser> could be mostly what paolo posted above
17:32 -!- qgis [~qgis@74-81-237-24.gci.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi]
17:32 < duiv> well: about the fact the QGIS is encouraging the creation of usergroups
17:33 <@anitagraser> duiv: i can write about that, sure
17:33 < duiv> and swiss is a good example of it? You as a psc member ....
17:34 < duiv> pcav? you can do txt for the website?
17:34 < pcav> I can do it
17:37 <@anitagraser> it's getting quite late. would you mind spending a few minutes on the 2.2 release name
17:37 <@anitagraser> i contacted the developer meeting organizers from valmiera
17:38 <@anitagraser> Valmeera or Livonia (I also like Livland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livonia) sound like good candidates to me.
17:38 < pcav> I think we should also decide on the trademark
17:38 < pcav> or have another meeting soon
17:38 < pcav> Livonia for me
17:39 <@anitagraser> mhugent: duiv?
17:39 < duiv> Livonia is fine for me too.
17:40 < duiv> I was looking at the map at wikipedai
17:40 <@anitagraser> ah :D
17:40 < duiv> if it was usefull too
17:40 <@anitagraser> i think the organizers have some maps which they can send me
17:41 < duiv> anitagraser: I'm pretty neutral about names. Did we check if there is not an american/swiss insurance company called livonia?
17:41 <@anitagraser> duiv: can you make the font size in the lateste news same as for the "Shape the future of QGIS with your contributions." text?
17:42 <@anitagraser> duiv: not yet i can do some searches
17:43 < mhugent> Livonia is also a city in Michigan
17:43 < duiv> anitagraser: you mean just the font and the size?
17:44 <@anitagraser> duiv: yes
17:44 <@anitagraser> livonia seems to also be a liquor brand http://www.livonia.lv/
17:45 < duiv> mmm... 
17:45 < duiv> Valmeera? Insurance or beer?
17:46 < duiv> maybe safer?
17:47 < pcav> sorry
17:47 < pcav> I think we ahev more important stuff
17:47 < pcav> don't you agree?
17:48 <@anitagraser> go ahead. but who picks the name when?
17:49 <@anitagraser> or we drop it ...
17:49 < duiv> if not important, just choose
17:49 < duiv> valmeera?
17:49 < duiv>  +1
17:50 < pcav> 0
17:50 < mhugent> +1
17:51 <@anitagraser> +1
17:51 < duiv>  jef?
17:51 < jef> 0
17:51 <@anitagraser> ok, so trademark pcav
17:51 < pcav> ok
17:52 < pcav> ideally the trademark should be requested by qgis
17:52 < pcav> which is not (yet) a legal entity
17:52 < pcav> so we have two choices:
17:52 < pcav> 1. wait until we'll have one
17:53 < pcav> 2. buy it now (some EU resident should do it)
17:53 < pcav> and attribute to the association later
17:53 < pcav> opinions?
17:53 <@anitagraser> +1 for 2. if it doesn't cause high extra costs
17:54 < pcav> if there are
17:54 < pcav> they are marginal
17:54 < pcav> e.g. we could make an agreement
17:55 < pcav> in which the registrant assures (s)he will donate the trademark to the association when it will be formed
17:55 < pcav> this may cost something 
17:55 < pcav> for the legal assistance
17:55 < pcav> but nothing serious anyway
17:56 < pcav> my opinion
17:56 < pcav> is that we should start letting people know that we ahve a name
17:56 <@anitagraser> pcav: if someone from psc registers the trademark, you'd still want this written agreement? (not saying no)
17:56 < pcav> and we cannot accept *anything*
17:56 < pcav> it's a matter of trust
17:56 < pcav> not very important either way IMHO
17:57 < duiv> let's trust the psc members
17:57 <@anitagraser> pcav: you already have a lawyer for this issue, right?
17:57 < pcav> yes
17:57  * duiv thinks the world has too much lawyers
17:57 <@anitagraser> would you go ahead and buy it?
17:57 < pcav> duiv: sure
17:57 < pcav> don't tell us
17:57 < pcav> 18k in IT
17:57 < pcav> anitagraser: I can do it
17:58 < pcav> after psc decision
17:58 <@anitagraser> 18k one-time payment?
17:58 < pcav> no!
17:58 < pcav> 18 thousands lawyers in Italy
17:58 < pcav> :)
17:58 <@anitagraser> :P
17:58 < pcav> more than developers ;)
17:58 < jef> I thought the had lira back ;)
17:59 < duiv> fine with me, but maybe make this an email vote?
17:59 < duiv> lol
17:59 <@anitagraser> duiv: why email?
17:59 < pcav> to have also others voting
17:59 < pcav> good idea
17:59 <@anitagraser> ah ok sure
17:59 <@anitagraser> deadline for answers: 5 days?
18:00 < duiv> yep. Fine. pcav: keep moving 
18:01 < pcav> ok
18:01 < pcav> should I ask the list?
18:02 < duiv> if you ask for voting on psc list, then maybe cc community list or so?
18:02 < pcav> duiv: why?
18:02 < mhugent> I have to rush home. Bye everyone
18:02  * anitagraser wonders if we could be inpiring someone to rush ahead and get the trademark themselves if we make our move too public
18:03 <@anitagraser> bye mhugent
18:03 -!- mhugent [~quassel@164.8.24.31.ftth.as8758.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:03 < duiv> pcav: I thought you were asking... on which list
18:03 < pcav> not
18:03 < pcav> to me this is psc
18:03 < duiv> sorry
18:03 < pcav> ok, so I'll ask for voting
18:04 < pcav> next?
18:04 < pcav> [pcav] QGIS association/foundation
18:04 < pcav> ?
18:04 < duiv> I have to split in 10 min. too
18:04 <@anitagraser> marco just left
18:05 < pcav> ok, so, quickly
18:05 < pcav> I think we have to postone association establishment
18:05 < pcav> it's a major thing, we have to evaluate carefully a lot of omplications
18:05 < pcav> governance etc
18:06 < pcav> so let's discuss about this in Vienna
18:06 < pcav> ok?
18:06 <@anitagraser> should we schedule a meeting on only this topic for vienna?
18:06 < duiv> ok
18:06 < pcav> definitely
18:06 < jef> +1
18:07 < duiv> by the way: did one of you attend the meeting yesterday?
18:07 < pcav> fine
18:07 < pcav> who can do that?
18:07 <@anitagraser> duiv: yes
18:07 <@anitagraser> pcav: i can send out an appointment if you mean that
18:08 < pcav> ok
18:08 < pcav> so I'll ask for the votation
18:08 < pcav> are we done?
18:08 <@anitagraser> duiv: any specific questions about the meeting yesterday?
18:09 < duiv> well, I was wondering if all goes ok
18:09 < duiv> as we have not a local representative this time to ask
18:09 < pcav> to me it seems so
18:09 <@anitagraser> i'll try to join stephan when he visits the venue next time
18:10 <@anitagraser> but i think he's doing a good job
18:10 < duiv> yes, I think he does!
18:10 <@anitagraser> and the budget looked ok as well
18:10 < duiv> but there is not need for help/action or others from our side?
18:10 < pcav> agreed
18:10 < pcav> it seems not
18:10 < duiv> cool
18:10 < pcav> I'm following up for the budget issues
18:11 < pcav> but everything seems ok also from that side
18:11 <@anitagraser> great! thx pcav
18:11 < pcav> thanks stephan rather
18:12 < duiv> yeah, we owe him something...
18:12 < pcav> sure
18:12 < duiv> do we have some QGIS had ;-)
18:12 <@anitagraser> release name *ducksandrunns*
18:12 < pcav> we should make tee shirts for every HF
18:13 < duiv> yep, still sleeping in my lisboa shirt...
18:13 <@anitagraser> we would need to know sizes
18:13 < pcav> we have done it already
18:14 < pcav> in Lisbon, remember?
18:14 <@anitagraser> wasnt there
18:15 < duiv> anitagraser: http://qgis.org/en/site/index2.html 
18:15 < duiv> with or without scrollbars
18:15 < duiv> ah... power gone....
18:16 <@anitagraser> duiv: without
18:17 < duiv> so the list cannot be too long then, or we will think about a solution later
18:17 < duiv> have to go now. Bye all
18:17 <@anitagraser> just read the top n entries from the file
18:17 <@anitagraser> bye duiv
18:18 < pcav> bye